Assuming Hakeem Nicks comes all the way back from foot surgery, what kind of season do you think he'll have? Could he break into the league elite in his second season?
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im a huge fan of his, have been since his tarheel days, but elite maybe a stretch. i hope for a pro bowl type season. now hopefully we can run the ball so that the opposition has to commit a safety to the box
ReplyDeleteScott, I agree, elite is a bit of a stretch. I would say he is going to be good this year and build off a strong rookie year. It would be awesome to watch him snag a Pro Bowl berth in his second year, but I don't think he will be quite there. I think he will be all the way back from foot surgery. Nicks seems like the type of competitive athlete who would work his butt of to ensure he will be back for the season.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the inquiry is about Nicks, I believe the Giants will have a myriad of productive receivers. I don't think that Steve Smith will be able to duplicate his production from last year as teams will surely be more prepared to deal with him, which should open up opportunities for the others.
ReplyDeleteI really thought when Nicks had the ball in his hands he looked pretty spectacular with some amazing moves! He really showed some stuff as a rookie and really impressed me.
ReplyDeleteElite? Perhaps...but he might have to work a year or two before he achieves elite status. But with such an impressive rookie season, elite isn't that much of a stretch and maybe that year or two could turn into next year.
Go Giants!
I don't see any reason why Nicks can't be elite. His hands are the size of Bigfoots and the okey doke moves he showed proved he is football fast, something a 40 yard dash time can't show. Out of all the positions in football besides QB for some reason WR is the hardest to break into and contribute as a rookie. Most guys make huge jumps from year one to year two and from year two to year three. If he can do this WATCH OUT LEAGUE, WATCH OUT MANNING TO HARRISON, MARINO TO DUPER, AIKMAN TO IRVIN!
ReplyDeleteMaybe it matters if they can stretch the field with some speed and set up the play action with some passing. To me the Giants WR always seem to be in the same area on the field 10-20 yards, including the TE. I think Coughlin wants to get verticle more this season so Nicks could be the recipient of some longer balls.
ReplyDelete60 catches, 850 yards and 4 tds
Ernie's question was, can "he break into the league elite in his second year?" Seems we all agree he will be elite, just maybe not THIS year, which I think is a fair assessment.
ReplyDeleteI love this guy and I am glad we got him. Nicks is a all around Football Player and I don't think stats alone will do him justice. As long as he is on the field, his value will always be elite for us and he will do more of the 'little' things that wont end up in the stats.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous, the reason why the receivers seem to always be in the same area is because of the overuse of WR screens by Gilbride in particular with Manningham and Nicks.
ReplyDeleteHopefully with the re-emergence of the running game as well as the hopeful play of Ramses Barden, this team will be able to go vertical and often.
@ Haj
ReplyDeleteI agree. Let's hope the running game finds it's "footing" this season. We need the backs to perform and I mean all the backs. We can't just run on the back of Bradshaw...over use has caused him to suffer to many injuries. He's an awesome player and we wouldn't have had much of a running game if it wasn't for him...but I want him to last more than a few seasons. We need Jacobs to pick up the pace and return to the bruiser he once was...that is if he can stay healthy.
Let's assume elite means top 20 WRs in the NFL, split that to top 10 in the NFC;
ReplyDeleteNFC elites:
1-Larry Fitz
2-Calvin Johnson
3-DeShaun Jackson
4-Colston
5-Roddy White
6-sydney rice
7-steve smith NYG
8-jennings
Now where do you go? Miles Austin, Donald Driver, Steve Breaston, Steve Smith (Car),
Maybe Nicks is already a top 10. I don't think the top 2 will change, Rice will drop once Favre leaves Minn, Jackson could drop this year if Kolb is not good, either Austin or Dez Bryant will get all balls in Dallas.
Ernie,
ReplyDeleteSuperb & Yes
next question?
While he may have elite potential, I'm not sure we'll see it this year or for a while. While he was drafted to be a #1 WR, there's still a lot of ball sharing (tee hee) to be done on this team. Smith is the trusted go-to-guy, Manningham is a solid option with potential and Kevin Boss is a great receiver that should really be used more. Still have Bradshaw, Ware/Brown as great pass targets out of the backfield, Beckum if he gets rollin' and the emergence of Barden in the system.
ReplyDeleteSo while Nicks (not Hicks...ahem) has star potential, I just don't think he'll be racking up "elite" numbers....yet.
is Beatty a bulldozer, take the DE into the backfield kind of blocker? this is the one and only question for the offense...all this nonsense about passing is moot. They can pass the ball and their yound wr are only going to get better. Can their revamped Oline sustain drives long enough to keep the defense fresh?
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous, when you lead the league in rushing and lose your top WR and are left w/ a lot of unknowns on offense, opposing teams will wisely take away your strengths and dare you to beat them otherwise. Obviously, not discounting the injuries at the RB position, defenses were preparing with the mindset that the Giants will not be able to rush on them. If they were going to be beat, let's see what Eli can do w/o Plax.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, the unknowns proved to be pretty spectacular and the O-Line is armed with some intriguing prospects. The one missing element to the running game and the overall health of the offense is a player that can command a double team. This is where Plax is truly missed. Although he may not have generated elite stats, he was treated by opposing defenses as an elite receiver which surely benefited the running game.
1) Does a running game exist? Without it, the WRs will suffer 2) Does the O line still have "it"? Eli can't throw from his back 3) Does Manningham develop consistency or does his threat diminish greatly due to numerous drops and/or being out of bounds? 4) Does Gilbride recognize the potential of the WR corp and use them effectively? 5) Does Nicks stay healthy? One injury, no big deal. But we are all, sadly, used to certain Giants having chronic injury problems. Let's hope Nicks does NOT become one of them.
ReplyDeleteIf the answer to most/all of those questions is "yes", I think he will break into the "elite", if not this year, then next (providing next year the players aren't locked out!). I think he's shown amazing promise. Count me in as a Nicks fan.
What is gggmen talking about? "There is a lot of ball-sharing to go around" Did ggggmen watch one game last year? The running backs are barely a threat out of the backfield, the TE is not a consistent threat and there are only 3 viable wr's who all get targeted all over the field including quick routes especially designed for them. The other wr's are the worst 4-6 in the NFL and Nicks (who will be on the field more than Manningham) Manningham and Smith will all get blanketed with passes. If one of the other two is injured that will only be more so. Other teams have 7 legit passing targets and still have receivers with #'s. Barden?":??? WHAT?:"> You lost me at Brown and Bradshaw "great" passing targets but come on Barden? That comment by ggggmen can easily be read in its entirety as being 100% toungue and cheek it is so ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI truly believe Hicks has the potential to be an elite. Factors like health, chemistry with Eli, offensive line will all determine whether or not he can achieve this potential. Go Giants!
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of the replies, Hicks has the potential to be an elite receiver, just not yet. I think he would still be concerned about his recovery, especially if the turf at the new stadium is iffy. Good hands and speed, I'm excited to see what he can do this season.
ReplyDeleteWatched every game actually...
ReplyDeleteMost teams have a star WR and some supporting role receivers. I'd say Nicks and Manningham are on equal ground when it comes to getting looks from Eli. Smith is always the go-to-guy. Bradshaw's speed makes him a threat in a short pass game.
An elite receiver is thrown at in all coverages and always the prime target. With these top 3 receivers and the need to develop Barden and work Boss and Beckum in to the pass attack, I just think it interferes with the number of opportunities that Nicks will see.
Boss - I said he needs to be used more. Never said anything about him being a consistent threat, but he CERTAINLY makes the most of every opportunity that he sees. I think he deserves more looks, but the fact that he's not just a dumpy blocking TE and that he IS a solid receiving tight end means he'll get looks from Eli. Every opportunity for someone else is one less for Nicks.
Nothing far fetched or inaccurate about any of that.....certainly not as much of a reach as comparing Nicks and Eli's potential to "AIKMAN AND IRVIN" or "MANNING AND HARRISON"
It is safe for Yogi and Whitey to go about their normal routines now that Houk has passed away. Yogi could have heeded my advice before he took a header but hey hindsight is 20/20.
ReplyDeleteWayno knows not of the NFL...other teams have 7 passing targets? really seven? Assuming 40 passes per game, with 60% completion that works out to 24 catches; spread among 7 receivers is about 3 catches each....I tend to see one target catching about 8-10 balls, and then 4 other targets catching 2 or 3.
ReplyDeleteI concur with what ggggg-men wrote; Manningham and Nicks are about the same at this point, maybe this year we will see some separation between these two, maybe Manningham will return punts in addition to WR.
ReplyDeleteI think dweez provides a true and honest assessment; the running game is the question. The offensive line was not dominant and may not have been improved with new personnel, this we will need to see. If not, then it will be a long year..
good line play enables the offense to do what they want..plain and simple...the NFL is not all that complex, if you can protect your QB and/or run the ball, you can do positive things. Look at how the Panthers carved up our defense with their running attack.
ReplyDeletegggggggggmen has resorted to Anonymous posts to try to prove his stupid pollyanna points. hahaah hahaha.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, don't stop w/ the Panthers as the defense was carved up by the run by a number of teams.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, the ideology of the game is simple, but not necessarily the game itself. There's a lot of time and energy that goes into game planning and inventions of new tactics to confuse both the offense and defense. Just look back at what the Saints did to the Giants. No reviewing of tape was going to help them in preparation as they called rushing plays from passing formations and pass plays from running formations.
That is quite an accusation Wayno. I would love to see the evidence you have gathered in the case of Wayno v. Gggggmen.
ReplyDeleteHa....funny, but no, I don't put that kind of effort into these posts. It doesn't matter much if nobody agrees with me or I'm dead wrong on every point I made; I just think what I think.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if I posted "what goes up must come down", you'd probably make a solid argument against the case for gravity, for the mere sake of tearing down someone else. It's cool, I find it entertaining. We're both Giants fans, so you can call me all the names you want; on Sunday we're both cheering at the same time (or more likely cursing the TV). Kudos Wayno
Giants LB corp was rated 30 out of 32 (see Ed Valentine's blog).
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree..
where does everyone rate the WR corps?
1-Colts
2-Saints
3-Cards
4-Pats
5-Packers
6-Eagles
7-texans
8-Chargers
9-????
are they top 10
I would put the WR 3rd in the NFC east;
ReplyDeleteEagles, Cowboys, Giants, Redskins.
In terms of LBs, I would put them last;
Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Giants
Redskins with Orakpo and London Flecther have 2 strong LBs
Seriously, how can you truly rank a particular unit on defense in the NFL where how the position plays is dictated by the type of defense run?
ReplyDeleteA Tampa-2 is different form a 4-3 which is different from a 3-4. Each position on defense is important, but the style/type of defense determines the play and importance of each position.
HAJ
ReplyDeleteI think the rankings are based on how the unit performs within their scheme. If you read the article it makes the same points most of the bloggers make about the GMEN LBs; Boley, had one great year, got rewarded by the Giants with big FA contract, got hurt and hasn't been able to get back to that level, MLB..big problem, big question mark, poor play by AP last season and no replacement on the horizon, Sintim, gets the nod and will be given chance to prove he can play in the NFL, played down in college mostly pass rush, may not be quick enough for the NFL.
Actually, I don't think the evaluation goes that far in depth. I'm sure that the top rankings will be heavy in teams that employ a 3-4 defense and then trickle down from there. I'd actually expect that. The bulk of the work up front is handled by the LB's and should be the norm in terms of higher production, stat-wise. At the same time, that same assessment cannot be used to evaluate LB's from varying defensive systems.
ReplyDeleteI mean it's not the O-Line. An O-lineman either does his job in terms of blocking and pulling, or he doesn't. It's a lot easier to assess. Is the QB standing upright at the end of a play? Is the RB tackled behind the line of scrimmage more often than not? How many positive plays versus negative plays?
I don't know, it's just my opinion.
It definitely skews the rankings when you're comparing a 4-3 with a 3-4. If the Giants converted to a 3-4, suddenly Kiwanuka, Pierre-Paul and/or Osi become part of the linebacker crew. While that doesn't make them stellar, it definitely bumps them up a few spots in the ranking.
ReplyDeleteBut crap is crap, and our LBs just played terrible last year. Letting fullbacks run all over us and getting burned by TEs all year. I think it was P. Traina who posted all the defensive stats against TEs last year and it was down right nauseating...
I like the lively discussions of late, this is a good blog but I have to say that I wish there was more momentum building with camp just around the corner I wish there was more....
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous above.
ReplyDelete..head to Canada, they're already playing
do the giants lack game breaking ability? With Rolle on defense, maybe they'll get some more momentum changing plays, the special teams are lacking and need to be revamped, I would have fired the ST coach, the offense playmaking ability at WR is slight, no playmakers in the backfield, but does this really matter? Cards, Saints, Colts (to some extent), Pats...all lack a big time RB
ReplyDeleteprediction, bounce back year 11-5
Anonymous, I'm not sure I agree about the lack of play makers on offense. I think the Giants proved last year that the WR position is a position of strength. What I do think the Giants is missing is someone that will draw extra attention from the opposing defense. More than anything, this is what the Giants miss sans Plax which has also played a part to the lack of success rushing the ball.
ReplyDelete(Most recent) Anonymous, I love the idea of firing the ST coach. I blame a lot of the ST troubles on him. I am going to disagree with you slightly regarding the WRs and completely with the RBs. Our WRs are YOUNG and have a lot to learn, but we saw some flashes of what is to come in the future. That 55 yard TD screen pass to Nicks was pure art. Manningham showed some good moves and Smith was Smith. So, although "slight" might be a bit of an understatement for last year, it should be a HUGE understatement this year. With regards to the RBs, Bradshaw is a playmaker. Unfortunately, he was broken last year. Remember that 88 yard TD against the Bills his rookie year. The spark he gave us in the playoffs leading up to the SB. 2008 he got lost behind Ward. Last pre-season and through the first 5 games, he was awesome! In pre-season, I remember we were all excited because he had 2 TDs one game: one where he ran around people, the other because he ran over people. A healthy Bradshaw is going to be vital to our win-loss record.
ReplyDeletePlaymakers: RBs, Bradshaw if ever healthy (check out videos of games in 2nd half of Super Bowl season); WRs, Nicks showed several flashes late last year, hope he can keep it up this year.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, yes, Giants have lots of folks good for 15-20 yd gains, but what exactly is the problem with that? Go back and watch Montana-Rice 49ers some time, especially famous final drive in last 49ers-Cincy Super Bowl. Looked a lot like Giants' last drive against the Patriots in SB42. Nothing wrong with moving the ball that way. Whenever I read people (including offensive coordinators) saying they need more deep vertical plays, I think to myself, "And how's that vertical offense working out for you in Oakland, Mr. Davis?"
Let's remember as excited as most of us are about the WRs (why not? strongest group the giants have had in years), NY does not have a backup QB. Nothing will make Nicks, Manningham, and Smith seem more mundane than Jim Sorgi becoming the starting QB because Eli got hurt. Ernie seems to have left us (summertime and livin's easy), but I would love him to ask Reese why NY had no interest in Marc Bulger. Bulger was very solid QB when he had an O line (like David Carr), was a starter (like Carr), has a good arm and accuracy (like Carr) and was available on the cheap (like Carr). We lost Carr (huge loss if Eli gets hurt). Why not get a similar QB in a similar situation? The Giants could have revived Bulger's career like they revived Carr's. Sorgi is NOT a starting QB - period. The backup QB went from a position of strength to weakness and it didn't have to. Sorgi to Nicks won't intimidate any opposing defenses.
ReplyDeleteJud - In fairness, Oakland drafted JaMarcus. Any guy loaded up on codeine syrup and soda can't run a vertical offense. In fact, based on his on field results, he apparently couldn't run ANY offense. Now, it's nobody's fault but Oakland's that they drafted the codeine whale, but just remember next draft season, Mel Kiper thought it was a brilliant move by Oakland and JaMarcus was going to bring back the glory days to Oakland. Which demonstrates perfectly how much the "experts" really know about the draft.
ReplyDeleteDweez, to piggy-back a bit and to address something from earlier, anytime that someone wants to knock Reese's GM decisions thus far, look around the league at how bad it can be (especially in Oakland). The names we have been mentioning here today (Smith, Nicks, Manningham, Bradshaw, Rolle) are they guys that Reese brought in here. Wanted to get that out.
ReplyDeleteCE718 - Quite a valid point. But using JaMarcus as exhibit A, it shows why a top ten draft pick can HURT the very team that a top draft pick SHOULD help. You blow it in the top ten and you've tied your team's hands salary wise. Way, way too much money given to guys who have never played a snap. Rookie cap brings the number down to sane levels, let's the veterans (who EARNED it, get more), and, if a team makes a bad pick (just under 50% of all draft picks wash out of the League), it doesn't cripple the team going forward. We are slowly entering the time where the Giants will transition from primarily Accori's team to Reese's. We should a lot more about where Reese stands in the next two, three years as his picks continue to replace Accorsi's.
ReplyDeleteI've always felt that at least one of the backup QBs needs to be a scrambler, someone who can make plays with their feet when all else breaks down. I sort of liked Skinner in this role ahead of Bomar, but he's gone now so no use worrying about it. Troy Smith in Baltimore is a good example, maybe he never starts, but he can come in and move the chains passing and throwing.
ReplyDeleteI'm moving all my comments to the Boss blog point that Ernie has presented see you there
ReplyDelete