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Interesting personnel situation with two former Giants tight ends going in the Vikings-Saints NFC Championship game this weekend. Jeremy Shockey has had a quietly productive year for the Saints with 48 catches for 569 yards and three touchdowns, and Visanthe Shiancoe (56 catches, 566 yards, 11 TDs) has had an outstanding season with the Vikes.
Meanwhile, the Giants' Kevin Boss proved himself tough and smart, but was grossly under-used as a receiver for a variety of reason, most notably because he was needed to block in the many max protect schemes.
So here's the question. Given their relative impact on their respective teams, who would you want to see on the Giants? Is Boss sufficient. Should the Giants have continued to put up with Shockey? Should Shiancoe never have been set loose in free agency? You tell me.
EP
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Its not the first player the Giants have lost, that has gone on to better things. Ed McCaffrey comes to mind, for one. Part of this is the Vikings found better ways to use Shiancoe. I doubt Gilbride would have figured out how to take advantage of his talents.
ReplyDeleteThe Vikings wildly overpaid for Shanc and they were ready to ship him out of town after all the drops he had last year so lets not get ahead of ourselves.
ReplyDeleteErn, u are nuts to think Boss is the next Bavaro. He is slow, has a very slow first step and cant get open. Good hands, bad blocking should make him a third-stringer. He wasnt underused as u like to say, he just can't distinguish himself on a consistent basis.
A new #1 TE, perhaps Beckum is the guy, is needed for next year. Are u Boss' agent Ern? Seriously, at this point you must have some sort of a stake in him.
I've got to admit I never thought Shiancoe would be such a good receiver. When he was let go I definitely was not crying. But I am glad he is making a new career in a Viking uniform.
ReplyDeleteAs for Shockey I was glad to see him go and watching him in the New Orleans game against the Cardinals made me miss him less. His yelling and screaming after his touchdown just turned me off and when he limped off just reminded me of the Giant who loved to be injured more than he loved to play. We won the Super Bowl with another tight end and have had success without him.
Boss is a great tight end in my mind making tough catches and taking big hits. He is a good blocker hopefully getting better and unlike someone who I just spoke about is hardly ever on the sideline.
It's too bad Boss is often kept in for blocking because I think who could be a greater weapon for the Giants!
The Giants did the right thing. Shiancoe did nothing with the Giants, I believe the Giants would have liked to have him back, but the Vikings paid him to be a stud TE. And he's still not that. He's good, I don't think he's better than Boss. Just that the Vikings throw to him more.
ReplyDeleteThe Giants use their TE's to block a lot more than the Vikings do.
And as for Shockey. I would much rather have Boss on my team. Remember they won a Super Bowl with Boss -- not Shockey. And sure Shockey has put up pretty decent numbers this season, he is still chronically hurt and never lived up to his potential.
If you compare both players first three years in the league, Boss compares pretty favorably to Shockey. Shockey had more yards, but Boss has a higher yards per reception -- 12.7-11.4, more TD's: 13-10.
And he's not the locker room problem Shockey was.
And Shiancoe's been in the league seven years -- three with the Vikings. His first year was a complete bust with Minnesots -- 323 yards, one TD, the next year was better 596 and seven; and then this year is his best, 566 and 11.
Sure maybe Shiancoe was underused with the Giants (they still had Shockey), but his first year with the Vikings was terrible. And in Boss, they have a player that's four years younger. How many more years like this will Shiancoe have? One, maybe two?
Boss still has maybe five good prime years left.
Shockey was a loud mouth who throttled the offense by his constant complaining. Shiancoe cannot block so he was no use to the power running game that the Giants desired. My problem is that we're still searching for that person. Boss is not it. People keep saying he is under utilized but he also has yet to learn how to use his body to get separation from LBs. he has great hands, but the great TEs are virtually uncoverable when defended by LBs. I'd be surprised if Boss is a starter by the end of next season. he takes too much punishment.
ReplyDeleteI do miss Shockey the player; the skill, the intensity, the never-say-die attitude. i remember the play-off game against Philly, his ankle was completely messed up, he could barely walk and still he was out there doing his all. however, i do not miss shockey the person who was loud, brash, self centred and completely undoign all the good work on the pitch when he was off it.
ReplyDeleteShiancoe showed nothing much at all when given opportunities here. i don't miss him at all.
Boss is underated. he may not have great speed and get wide open too often, but he does get open enough and if you check out most of his receptions, theres a fair bit of seperation.
Shock dug his own grave. Good riddance. Shiancoe was only let go because the Vikings threw a ridiculously large amount of money at him. Given that Shock was the highest paid TE at the time, it would have been cap suicide for the Giants to match or beat Minny's offer for Shiancoe. There really wasn't any choice in either case. Shock was cancer and Shiancoe would have killed the cap. The Giants did what they had to do in both situations.
ReplyDeleteDo the Giants PR staff put you up to writing these articles that will lead to Shockey bashing? How sad that two years later so many fans and people related to the Giants can't let it go. Hope you enjoy your parking spot at the new stadium, Ernie, I imagine it will be right next to Hanlons?
ReplyDeleteOh, and 113...Shockey wasn't celebrating after his TD..He hit his helmet after a helmet-to-helmet hit, clearly signally for a flag.
This ended up well for all involved. Shock was good but his ego was bigger than his talent. As well, Eli grew, both professionally and as a leader, when Shockey and Barber left . The Giants were looking for that and got it.
ReplyDeleteThis discussion is a little moot because we are comparing players vs. offensive philosophies. However, I'm really happy with Boss and I think he works the best for the Giants.
Who wouldn't love a kid who appreciates the opportunity, is respectful, works extremely hard, does his job well, and is a team first guy. Plus the guy has great hands.
Chris B.
I'm glad Shockey is gone, I was never a fan of his. I'm happy with Boss.
ReplyDeleteI think it's more of a case who's fits in our offense and Boss is a perfect fit.
ReplyDeleteI think the more interesting question is from the last few years, what decision was the worst in terms of letting people go:
ReplyDeleteSHANCOE,
SHOCKEY
K. MITCHELL
JAMES BUTLER
DERRICK WARD
BIGBLUE09
Shockey Shockey Shockey
ReplyDeleteIt's not even close. They should have kept him. I still think a big reason he is gone is all the anti-Shockey media (Vachianno, for one) drove him away. It's still not clear to me if Beatty and Sintim will pan out. Isn't that who they eventually drafted with the picks they got?
It was a bad trade.
The other problem is he was under utilized since Fassel left. He is much better split out or in the slot, ala Dallas Clark.
Sean - anti-Shockey media? The media loved him and always talked about his "spirit" and how he "fired up" the team. Bottom line, he was usually hurt, dropped passes left and right, showed up his QB game after game (even though his QB did NOT show him up when he dropped a pass!), the guy clearly has an alcohol problem (passing out in Vegas, double fisted drinking at the Super Bowl, etc., etc) and, the fianl blow, he proceeded to openly screamed in the face of the GM in front of the entire team. Here's an experiment, if you work for a middle sized/large company, find the VP, make sure everyone is around and start screaming at him/her. Then come back and let us know how that worked out for you. He had a hissy fit because the team won the Super Bowl without him. He plays the "victim" card 24/7 and has spent more time on IR than on the field. Wellington Mara took him under his wing and treated him like a son. The Giants made him the highest paid TE in football at the time. And the thanks NY gets from Shock is him telling the world how he was disrespected and mistreated. I don't usually wish people ill, but I will admit there will be some humor in watching Shockey end up in jail or bankrupt or both after he leaves football. The guy is a walking definition of spoiled child. The problem with that is he's supposed to be a grown man. You can take the boy out of the trailer, but you can't take the trailer out of the boy. It was clear cut case of addition by subtraction. The guy was a locker room cancer here and the only reason he's behaving in New Orleans is Brees dressed him down on the sidelines and put him in his place and he knows if he had one more bad season he was going to get cut. He has Brees as his QB, the NO WRs to draw double coverage away from him, and there are still 15 TEs who had more receiving yards and 15 TEs that had more receptions than Shockey. There are 18 TEs who had more TDs. Yep, it's clearly a case of the media victimizing poor Jeremy.
ReplyDeleteBoss respects Eli, is a great team guy and a hard worker... and I'm sure his price is right considering how low he was drafted. So, considering those variables, especially how much he's costing the Giants, he's a great fit.... BUT he's hardly the talent you think he is, EP! He's a role player, a value player and nothing more. Of the 4 starting tight ends in our division, I'd say he places dead last... and without thinking too hard, I can easily come up with a few much better TEs in other divisions. I highly disagree that he is underutilized... Time will tell. I hope I"m wrong.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I disagree that he's the tough player everyone praises him as. He's a TIGHT END! He's supposed to be tough and not just take hits, but search them out and deliver them! The big difference I see between him and Shockey (on the field) is that Shock would get up after a big hit and pound his chest, sending a message, showing Giant pride and toughness... Boss-y on the other hand acts like a girl when he gets hit... Bottom line: Boss is a good fit for the Giants, but he's soft!!! Wake up, Ern!
PS. really enjoyed your blog this season - quickly became my favorite source for Giants news. Hope you'll keep periodically posting during the off season...