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For my tastes, it's way too early to start looking at the draft. There is much to do, and much to still be determined as to the very shape of things in free agency (Karlos Dansby, anybody?) as far as I'm concerned. But there was a recent call on one of the posts for some discussion, so why not?
NFL.com's Bucky Brooks ran his first mock draft, and had Florida linebacker Brandon Spikes going to the Giants at No. 15. A fine pick, but of course it doesn't take into account what the team might pick up in free agency. If they address the linebacker there -- I'd rather stick a veteran rather than a first-round rookie in the middle -- I think I'd go with either a defensive tackle or a safety, which in effect means a defensive tackle because you can usually get a good safety in later rounds.
They certainly won't have a chance at Ndamukong Suh of Nebraska, as he's projected as the top pick overall. But a guy like UCLA's Brian Price could fall to them. Brooks picks him at 10, but remember, they haven't even had the scouting combine yet. Once these prospects get to Indianapolis, their values fluctuate like volatile stocks on a bad trading day. Teams fall in and out of love with these guys, so anything is possible.
Anyway, let's get the first of what promises to be many discussions going. What position would you take in the first round? Don't be afraid to predict how the first phase of free agency will go while discussing your options.
EP
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I agree with you Ern that DT and safety should be the first two priorities, with DT being #1. I also love the allure of adding a stud MLB although I dont think it is totally neccessary with Goff who at least plays hard.
ReplyDeleteAll that being said there was one guy in my very very limited viewing of College Football who stood out and that was Brandon Spikes. Others are telling me he is more of a hitter and not a speedster but I thought I was watching a great NFL MLB when I was watching the gators. McClain also loked like that guy but what do I know. I went to a basketball school and only have a passing interest in college football.
In terms of free agency the Giants should only use it for 1. desperation 2. to add a stud MLB (Dansby) 3. to plug holes with role players. Free agency doesnt work in the NFL like it does in MLB and everybody should realize that after the crap free agent class the Giants signed this year.
I think that if the Giants go with the tampa 2 style D that Fewell likes to run (unless someone really stands out in the draft) they are really going to have to look at FA for a MLB and he is going to have to be quick, can hit and also cover. I think they take a good DT with the 15th overall pick and look for a MLB and safty in later rounds to bring up.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm the Giants I would have my target list: Dan Williams, Price, Taylor Mays, Berry, McClain, Spikes. You have two LB's, DTs and safeties. That's six players I would love to have.
ReplyDeleteAll I think could start in the NFL right away. But like you said, if they get Dansby in free agency, then they may not go for a LB. Or who knows who else they target
Also, Ernie, two questions:
1. Any news on Kenny Phillips?
2. Why are the Giants 15th? Them, along with a whole bunch of teams finished 8-8. They're right in the middle of the 8-8 teams, but I don't understand why the Broncos got the 14th spot (which now belongs to Seattle).
Denver beat the Giants head-to-head. Does that not matter for the order of the draft?
no, it goes by strength of schedule and whoever has the weakest gets the better pick.
ReplyDeletethe only interesting part of Bucky's draft is that he obviously thinks the Colts beat the Saints in the SB
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see Taylor Mays in Giant blue next year... Some mock drafts have him dropping to them if they want him...
ReplyDeleteDan:
ReplyDeleteNo real news on Kenny Phillips. He's rehabbing the knee and appears on schedule. It's a slow process, and my guess is we won't see him do anything significant until training camp. So don't get too upset if you don't see him in the minicamps.
Also, as Wayneo said, the draft goes by strength of schedule, not tiebreakers. The weaker teams always pick before the stronger ones.
Ernie, I disagree. Unless we can get a Karlos Dansby or equivalent in free agency we should draft an LB in round one. Like RB's, linebacker is a position where rookies have come in an made an immediate impact. Defensive tackles rarely make any kind of impact their rookie years. I'd rather try to get the DT spot filled in free agency and take my chances at safety an LB in the draft. Also, don't count out LT in round one if a good one is there at 15. That position is definately a need for us and then we could put Diehl back at guard where he belongs.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see them get at least another top-notch offensive tackle, to go along with Beatty. Its fairly evident that this collective offensive line has seen their best days.
ReplyDeleteI think i would draft the best available linebacker first though. How many years has it been since the Giants have drafted a linebacker in the first round? Its been a LONG time, and it shows.
Here's another way to look at it - what DON'T the Giants need to draft in the upper rounds? I would say receiver fits in that category. Give the receiver selection in the upper rounds a rest for awhile!
As I project it right now the draft I think the 'value' picks at 15 will be OT's and DE's rather than DT's and MLB's. FS is deeper than normal with the influx of juniors so we could afford to wait until the 2nd or even 3rd rounds.
ReplyDeleteI hope we trade down to later in the round where the DT's for a second 2nd round pick then add players to both lines and an MLB.
If we sit still at 15 we either 'reach' for a DT or MLB or take an OT.
As far as free agency goes, let's not spend stupid sums of money but rather look for starters from other teams who for whatever reason are allowed to 'move on' having hit superstardom on moribund teams.
Could lightning strike twice and Kansas City allow SLB Derrick Johnson (a 1st rounder in '05) to move on as they did Kawika Mitchell (a 2nd rounder in '03)? KW didn't do too badly for us eh? Maybe it's the Chiefs system and coaching that led to them not initially meeting expectations rather than the players fault...
I watched Dansby in the playoffs because I knew he could someone that NY might go after. If you guys watch the Green Bay game, you see Dansby couldn't cover the TE at all. Finley, the GB TE, had six catches for 159 yards! So, does Dansby really address the Giants pressing need at LB? Why pay top dollar for a guy that can't cover the TE? We have that already. I like the guy, but since there will be very few free agents of quality this year because of the CBA, he's going to carry a very high price tag.
ReplyDeleteErnie, i disagree. whislt DT and safety especially are needs, i think we really need a MLB and tbh, i am tired of picking up other peoples scraps. I like Spikes, i think hes the kidn of guy that can anchor a defence.
ReplyDeletei don't liek Mays, the guys a great athlete and will light up the combine, but theres too many questions over him as a football player to risk takign at 15. if we take a safety, i'd much ratehr go for earl thomas.
What would it take to wrestle the pick away from the Rams? Our biggest need is at DT. Without good DTs, the opposing o-line can get to the second level, then it doesn't matter who you have at the LB position. DT becomes even more important in Fewell's tampa 2 system, as the LBs are not going to be blitzing as much, and the front 4 needs to get penetration. The best DT is Ndamukong Suh, probably the best DT to come into the draft...ever. This is a guy that a defense can be built around.
ReplyDeleteTake Osi,AP,our No.1,and next years 3 or 4 and trade them to the Rams and take Suh or the kid from Tenn.
ReplyDeletewe have so many needs that i wouldn't mind trading back to get more picks. if we can address the defensive side of the ball in free agency, i know a big if, then i wouldnt mind drafting someone like cj spiller in the first round. He would give eli a top notch emergency valve, and significantly improve the special teams.
ReplyDeleteThe draft is always such a risk. I think Suh will be a monster, but everyone thought Glenn Dorsey was going to be dominant coming out of LSU. Remember - NO ONE was questioning whether or not Ryan Leaf should go in the first round, the ONLY question was do you draft Leaf or Peyton first. We all know how that turned out. Bottom line, some guys can't make the jump to the pro level and some guys get ruined by all that guaranteed money that comes with being drafted early in the first. I don't think JaMarcus will ever end up being anything because he won't work on his game. Why should he with 30 million in the bank? Suh may end up being a HOFer or a bust or, more likely, somewhere between the two. There's just no way to be sure. Add on to that the Giants need to trade away the store to get him, the problems having him being the highest paid player on the defense BEFORE he's played one down, and the question mark of whether he can handle the pressure of needing to be a stud from the first snap or he will have the NY press on him like a pack of wolves. I just don't see it happening.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I am going out on a limb here. But, I see the giants picking the best player available, regardless of position.
ReplyDeleteregardless of a few positions, for example they arent taking a qb or a wr, and i also would stay away from DE's. but then again kiper has us taking dunlap from florida
ReplyDeleteYes, I would assume if a QB is there they would not take him. Maybe trade back for someone who would. I don't know if there are any top 15 talent WR's. Maybe Dez Bryant? Don't think that will be an issue.
ReplyDeletethey have several need positions, lb, dline, safety and maybe OL. i think if the best player available at 15 isnt one of those positions then you trade back
ReplyDeleteI am going on a limb and saying that the Giants should really take a look at trading up for Suh. I know, I know, giving up the whole draft. I do not think that has to be the case. The Rams need a lot everywhere and the help we need cannot all come from the draft, otherwise we will be throwing a lot of rookies on the field at once. Being a Huskers fan, I have watched Suh for a few years now. He is legit, no potential for bust. Reese needs to get creative here, it can be done. I like where Brian, NJ is going.
ReplyDeleteThe G-Men will draft to either "stop the run or run the ball". The one thing I keep hearing about this draft class is it's very deep. However, after what we just witnessed in 2009 they will definately draft to "stop the run".
ReplyDeleteI am squarely in the camp of MLB or DT. However, as I have said on this blog, I like a FA signing for a MLB over a draft choice, if possible. Maybe it's AP's leadership and defensive QBing role I want (not his old legs). I just don't know if we get that with a kid out of college. They also seriously have to figure out what they have with Goff. If you want to continue to develop him then you sign a competent FA for sure and fill needs in other places. Though after Dansby, who else is available?
There is no doubt we need help at DT. Bernard and Robbins are probably gone. That leaves Canty, Cofield, and Alford. Alfords knee is a question that won't get answered until he plays. Therefore, I think DT is the way to go.
What I do know is that after Suh and a kid from Michigan I don't know what's available. If it is a deep draft at DT, then perhaps you do trade that #1 down and try to pick up another pick in the 2nd or 3rd.
We need a draft class like 2007 again! One thing is for sure, it's a pivitol year for Reese and Ross.
Chris B.
Let's go Ern! One more post!! Whattya got???? Sometime I would love if u could break down the front office heirarchy and responsibilities of each.
ReplyDeleteA couple things:
ReplyDelete1. The Giants are not trading for Suh. Remember all they gave up to get Eli? And that was to move up two spots. This would be moving up potentially 14. And there's no gurantee Suh would be the answer. Remember all the Saints gave up to move up and take Ricky Williams? It's not worth the risk, and they will never do it.
2. They are not drafting a RB -- in the early rounds anyway. So take out CJ Spiller. And they still have Bradshaw, Jacobs (who is still servicable) and they drafted a RB last year who looked good before tearing his achilles. I think his name is Andre Brown.
3. I would never draft an O-lineman in the first round unless you get a stud LT. I don't think there will be any studs left at 15. You get better value in the later rounds.
4. The obvious needs are LB, DT and LB. It depends on who the Giants get in free agency what they'll need in the draft. I think those three defensive positions are well-stocked in this draft.
5. I don't think this is a make-or-break year for Reese. He's going into his fourth draft and already won a Super Bowl and has a record of 30-18. Every draft is important, you mess up on two or three in a row and your team is done. Reese has pretty good job security. He hasn't even had to fire or hire a coach yet.
Just picked up this list of potential MLB Free Agents:
ReplyDeleteKarlos Dansby - Cardinals
Barrett Rudd - Bucs
DeMarco Ryans - Texans
Chris B.
trade up for Suh? only in a dream world. like Dan said, think of what we gave up to move up for Eli. to move up 15 spots you can throw that in and a hell of a lot more besides. theres getting creative and then theres being just plain daft.
ReplyDeleteDT is a need, but is it THAT big? cofield and robbins were all comign off injuries. people think Canty was a bust, but its too early to tell, he was carrying injuries all season long. Bernard was a true bust, agreed, but a replacemtn for him can be picked up in the later rounds. and Fewell doesn't play a tampa 2, despite all the rumours to the contrary. theres been enough articles about it.
MLB or safety for me. and i really don't have a problem going with DT if we have to, but theres no way giving away so much for one is ever a legitimate option, certainly not for us. if anyone trades up for Suh, it'll be Tampa.
lets think long term. lets go MLB. so hes a rookie, i don't care. you know he'll want to play and not just coem looking for a pay day and he will be the future, for 10 years at least, not 4 or 5 like the older guys.
I think that Earl Thomas from Texas (the safety) is the most sensible choice. MLB they can either sign Dansby or more likely get by with AP and Goff, DT is a need but they will have Canty, Cofield and whoever they can get in round 2 or 3, plus Tuck moving inside on passing downs. At safety, the Giants have a total of zero players they can count on given Phillips' knee, Michael Johnson's mediocrity, Aaron Rouse's not even mediocrity, and CC Brown's....yeah, I can't find the words to describe his play for a family blog. Adding a guy like Thomas, who the draftniks seem to think is a really good player, strikes me as the right call. Other thoughts - trade up 5 picks for Rolando McClain, trade down for Spikes, draft Tennessee DT Dan Thomas. I think that Mel Kiper's choice of DE Carlos Dunlap was nuts - Osi may not be what he was, but the Giants already have 2 starting caliber DEs and one stud situational pass rusher. No reason to draft a 4th.
ReplyDeleteOne last thought on Spikes - doesn't seem likely that Reese would pick him. Reese is into size/speed, and while Spikes has size his speed isn't great. Also, players like him (one-dimensional run stopping MLBs) always seem to slip in the draft - see Rey Maulauga last year (and he was a huge bargain for Cincy in Round 2 before he broke his ankle). No reason to take him at 15, especially when the team has bigger needs than MLB
i see what you're saying, but i do think MLB is a pretty big need and i don't think its a position where you can afford as a team to 'just get by'. AP is far too slow, for all his mental acuity he hasn't done anything as a player since the superbowl and Goff hasn't shown anything at all as a starter. he managed to go one game without making a tackle at all, despite the opposition running it through the middle all day long. MLB is somethign that i think needs to be sorted in the first 2 rounds.
ReplyDeleteA few predictions - once these guys are fully scouted, Taylor Mays and Brandon Spikes drop to late 1st/early 2nd... mayybe beyond. I will eat my hat if Reese drafts Mays. Mays can hit but is atrocious in coverage. He would be CC Brown all over again.
ReplyDeleteMy dream pick is Rolando McClain at MLB but I think he will go in the top 10.
Brian Price at DT should be there and would be a good pick.
As much as I'd love a LB, the Giants have shown a horrible blind spot at this position, having drafted only 1 high quality player in the last 15 years in Jesse Armstead. If they admit that to themselves, they'll sign a proven LB through FA and draft DTs and DBs. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of draft busts at LB.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of trading out of the top 20 possibly even the first round and then picking up MLB and RB in the second round. The Giants need an elusive RB (sorry folks Bradshaw is not elusive, he just hits the hole better than Jacobs).
ReplyDeletehard hitting NFL grade safeties and DL can be picked up later, unless you want the top flight players in which case the play is to get Berry
I agree with the Post about Berry. Getting one game changing defensive player, an Ed Reed type is worth giving up draft picks for.
ReplyDeletePackage what you can to get Berry and then pick up OL in later rounds
worth giving up draft picks, yes, but how many? its not as if we have just one need, we hjave holes to fill in the linebackign corps, both sets of lines, depth at corner, possibly running back. so how many can we afford to give up?
ReplyDelete