Saturday, April 17, 2010

Mort Says

Take this for what it's worth, just because ESPN is wrong so much of the time, but football pundit Chris Mortensen has opined that the chances of Osi Umenyiora being traded before the Giants draft is "60-40, maybe higher." He thinks the Giants can get a second-round pick for the disgruntled defensive end, and that the Rams' first pick in the second round would be an attractive incentive to make the deal.

I don't know about you, but I think the Giants would be doing themselves a disservice by trading Umenyiora. He's cheap and he's signed through the next three seasons. And let's face it, this team needs pass rushers. He's working in the offseason program. He hasn't created a huge stir since the Super Bowl. And though the term excited would be stretching things, he seems accepting, at least, of what little he knows about Perry Fewell's new system.

I'm skeptical, anyway, that the Giants could get a No. 2 for him after last season's downslide. Then again, Steve Spagnuolo has made a habit of collecting his former players out in St. Louis, so one never knows. I'd be surprised if Jerry Reese lets him go.

As for Umenyiora's attitude, consider Reese's words from Thursday.

"There are always a lot of unhappy guys in the offseason," Reese said of players in general. "That is what the offseason is for."

Opinions please.



  1. If we got the 33rd pick in the draft for Osi, IMO that's a steal. But I think we would have to give up more than that, like maybe our second (or third round pick). Picks are usually so much more valuable than players its seems, but I have seen stranger things. Any how I enjoy having Osi on the team I would rather see him play for us than some one else. What does bother me is the upcoming logjam between him and Kiwi, if they both play well this season, we can't just let Kiwi walk, but he wants to start. And he is write the coaching staff hasn't been exactly fair to him switching him around every year. Some one may be the odd man out, and that is where I trust JR to replace that with a talented player in the draft. So in short don't trade osi this draft, let's see what he's got to prove.

  2. Proofreading JasonApril 17, 2010 10:35 AM

    Wow, that should be *right not *write, next time ill proof read a little better.

  3. I'm not a believer in Mortensen's prediction. As much as Spags may love Osi, even he knows that the first pick in the second round is a huge gamble on a guy that stunk last year. I saw nothing from Osi last year that makes me think someone would give up the 33rd pick in the draft for him when there's going to still be players on the board with huge potential.
    If Osi was a receiver maybe we could have stolen the pick from Al Davis, but I don't see Spags making this deal. He still has all his faculties.

  4. Hate to loose Osi. Talented get to the quaterback player entering the new season with a huge chip on his shoulder with plenty to prove. I think it would be a mistake to trade him, but we know how teams are with their players these days...transient is the word I would use.

    But the guys is still one of my favorites despite his recent comments. He help get us a ring and has can be a monster on defense. Remember he is coming of a injury so, me personally, I would give him another year.

  5. First, I give ESPN and Mort credit for being right, at best, 20% of the time. It's a hack outfit filled with commentators that contradict one another every day (hey, if one guy says it will happen and another says it won't, we're never wrong!). Now that's taken care of, the first pick in the second round this year is the most valuable second rounder in NFL history. Why? Because the second round no longer immediately follows the first. There's a 24 hour break in between. Any team desperate to get a guy that didn't get drafted in the first, will be clamoring for that pick. Desperate teams lead to great deals for teams willing to trade down. Normally, I would agree with Ernie 100%. Osi is signed at a bargain rate for a DE. This year, however, having the first pick of the second round is huge. The Giants could easily trade that pick for a lower second this year, a third, and probably another second next year. If they can get picks like that, which they should, that would make the trade worthwhile.

  6. Ya know what? ... I say take the deal ... that way the Rams can go after Bradford and get OSI for a 2nd and maybe a conditional ... Osi will be fine but he is and always will be a whinner ... do not need classless players ... to much talent out there ... seems Mort is speculating that the Ram's choice is Bradford over the two D-line guys... I sure would like to move up for that big D tackle ...

  7. First, as most of the people have said, ESPN is wrong so often, it's hard to believe anything they say. And Mort may be wrong the most out of any of them and that's saying something.

    Then he says that it's 60-40 he could be traded. What is that? How did he get that percentage? Does he just pull it out of his a$$? I don't get it. Why 60 percent? Honestly, I would have said there's a 50-50 chance he would be traded.

    I don't have any inside info about the Giants, but I mean it's 50-50, what's any difference than what Mort said? Ten percent? Why doesn't he just throw a curve ball and say there's a 59 percent chance, why 60?

    And that being said, there's no way the Rams are trading away the first pick in the 2nd round for Osi. According to Peter King, since this draft is so deep, he ranks that pick as a late first rounder, around 27th. So, why in the world would the Rams -- a team that needs so much -- give up that good a pick? It makes no sense.

    I like Osi, and he is signed pretty cheaply, but that being said, if the Rams are actually offering a second rounder for Osi straight up, then I would have to make that deal.

  8. This jives with what I'm saying. Osi is a talented guy, relatively young, cheap, and a past Probowler. That is worth that pick.

    My issue with Osi is keeping Kiwi. Both seem unhappy. Now, I love we have a surplus of pass rushers and if Reese keeps them I'm fine with that too. What I really dislike about Osi is the Princess act he puts on after the season. He was horrible against the run last year, had no gap control, and was a liability. Then he has the nerve to blame everyone and demand to be a starter. If he shuts up and plays, then I keep him. If he looks like he is going to be a problem, I pull the trigger. The only one who knows how he is going to respond are Reese and TC.

    Chris B.

  9. sal from yonkersApril 17, 2010 8:04 PM

    osi stays period

  10. osi is a damaged one dimensional player that has accomplished nothing w/o Mike Strahan......Kiwi offers more at more positions.......if we can get a 2nd round pick, let's take it & run before that team changes their mind.....

  11. Thank you bank. Osi was good when strahan and tuck were drawing double teams and teams couldn't just run right at him. So long Osi, hope u like early retirement by 29..... Jerk!

  12. Top 3 defensive culprits
    1. CC Brown
    2. Sheridan
    3. Osi

  13. Osi stays. I don't see the Giants giving up on him after one crappy year. Although, I wouldn't be surprised to see a draft-day trade.

  14. First, I disagree with Wayno's listing of defensive culprits.

    Did the defense play any better when Osi was benched? And did CC have any help from the other safety spot (Rouse or Johnson). And did the team play any better when he was benched?

    How about the LBs? Or the DTs? Or the pass rush? Or the injuries to the secondary? You can absolutely blame Sheridan, but then to put the majority of the blame on two players that weren't even starting by the end of the year is unfair. There were a lot of culprits.

    With Osi, I actually like him and still think he's a good player, but if the Rams are willing to trade a second rounder, you have to make that deal.

    However, like I said before, do we really believe the Rams are willing to make that deal? I don't buy it.

  15. The Giants LB group on the whole, underachieved far worst than any other unit. If you keep Osi, at least you will have 2 proven players at that position and options between Osi and Kiwi for next season. IF you want to draft a DE for the future, take a late round pick of Jay Ross or CJ Wilson from ECU, they are two under the radar players at this position.

    I think blocking TE enters into the draft at some point as well:

    Rd1 MLB, Rd2, DL, Rd3 OG, Rd4 OT, Rd5 TE, Rd 6 specialist (PR, KR), Rd 7 DE

  16. agree with bankstaylor,

    Osi is damaged goods. And grumpy damaged goods at this point. Get what ya can for him and send a message to the team: When a team quits, like the Giants quit in the last few games of last year, we might tolerate guys that have a bad year, but keep their mouths shut. Or guys that run their mouths but have a decent year, by that I mean at least playing hard. But what we won't tolerate is guys that take plays off, have a lousy year AND run their mouths. The fact is Sheridan was shitty and weak DC. You knew it the moment he said he wanted to coach from upstairs, and he got Bogarted out of it. But Osi walking out in Aug sure did not help Sheridan or the Giants. Or the def. In fact, I think it set the tone for the season. F Osi.

  17. @dan< injuries no doubt decimated our defense; but you would think guys like Osi and Tuck would stand up & take charge with their mouth and play, like Harry used to when big Blue stunk....Tuck tried but was playing hurt all year...Osi was a major distraction and showed how selfish he really is, spouting off during the season & during SB week.....The D was so predictable with Sheridan and when your D-line is not moving O-line, I do not care who your LBer's/secondary are....ironically, new DC said our D-line (healthy) is strength of our defense. Even when Osi was @ top of his game, he was a run liability.....let's at least see what Spags will give us for him....I'm glad experts are saying we are "done", but watch out....there is a Blue Storm on the horizon.......remember with all the injuries we had & a lousy DC, WE SWEPT THE BOYZ-the best team in nfc East!!!

  18. I think it might be time for him to move on.

    I cringe when the other teams purposely run his way.

    The key thing last year that was different in Osi's play from previous years was his 3-5 yards being pushed backwards off the line..... every oppenent took advantage of that weakness.

  19. Wow, I didn't realize that there were so many Osi bashers on the team. As a player coming off of an injury and playing part-time, he still managed 7 sacks and 4 forced fumbles while Kiwanuka managed 2 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. Oh I forgot, and then there's the complaining. The complaints of wanting to play more and earn his check. The complaints of wanting to know the reason for his benching while other players on the defensive front stink it up week after week after week. I don't know, seems sort of valid to me.

    Nonetheless, any player that the Giants draft will be a rookie. And for whatever reason, the Giants choose to slowly bring in their rookies which is why I don not understand the clamoring of trading a young veteran for a draft pick who will see very limited action.

  20. "Oh and then there's the complaining. What's so wrong about that."

    Nothing, if it's kept in house. Everything, if it's done through the press. Sorry you don't see the difference. As I said before, next time you have a beef with your job after having a lackluster year, refuse to meet with your boss, schedule an interview with the local paper, threaten to quit through the paper if your demands aren't met, and see how that goes over. I Googled this website for you just in case you take me up on that;

  21. dweez115, you're very delusional if you believe that an athlete's job coincide with the regular blue collar worker. Osi isn't 'Joe the plumber' and the consequences for taking things out public isn't nearly the same.

  22. @anonymous.......the other 52 players follow that unspoken decree.....we are not "bashing" Osi, we are giving an honest evaluation of what his talents are, as well as his attitude & if he can help our team win more than Kiwi can & most people on this site apparently think not. To reiterate, he has done zippo w/o Strahan on the other side & Spags causing confusion with his blitz packages. Kiwi can play LB....IF we needed him to also. The only reason Osi is still on our roster @ this point imho is that his contract is reasonable by today's standards

  23. Osi was seemingly blown off the line last year like the second coming of Lance Legree.

    OK, a little harsh...

    ....blown off the line like the second coming of George Hasenhorhl, a squatty NT from 36 years ago. HC Bill Arnsparger inexplicably went back to a 4-3 formation for a 14-7 loss vs the Falcons @ Yale bowl. This followed a 14-6 decimation of the Cowboys, with the defense playing a 3-4. John Mendenhall as NT, Jack Gregory & Roy Hilton DE's, Brian Kelly & Ron Hornsby ILB's & Brad Van Pelt & Pat Hughes OLB's...but I digress, Arnsparger said "Hasenhorhl worked well in PRACTICE all week and deserved a chance"....the Falcons, the eventually to be 2-12 Falcons(!), kept throwing over the middle, taking advantage of Hasnehorhls lack of push and height. When they ran? They ran right up the middle and got chuncks of yards.

    Osi suffers the same thing at this point imo. He is a weak point that is being exploited by the opposing team.

    *takes off 1974 hat and returns to 2010*

  24. bankstaylor, the notion that all players follow an unspoken decree is simply not true. With all the talk of the progression made by Beatty, even Diehl has come out and said that he has no plans on giving up his starting role as the LT. A position he holds and gives much credit to Osi for drastically helping him to reduce the learning curve associated with the position. And since when did Kiwi become so valuable? The topic on this board is in regards to trade value for Osi, not Kiwi. Ironically, the former 1st rounder that most on this board is pulling for is not even worth a 2nd round pick today. That's interesting in itself.

    Honestly, I'm not giving Osi a free pass here. The point here is if he sucked to the point of benching, why didn't the other guys that sucked just as bad or even worse get benched in the same fashion. This was the basis of his complaints and when he wasn't getting an answer, he unwisely voiced his frustration publicly. Again, not a wise move, but an answer is a reasonable expectation. Why in the world am I on the sideline watching Danny Clark play?

  25. @ anon...a guy wanting to play at a high level and produces is admirable.....Osi was not and got to grab some bench; and on top of that he was a cancer in the clubhouse and handled the mini-demotion like a child......Kiwi comes in to play in this debate b-c he plays the same position(better vs run imo) as Osi and was a team player when asked to play LB a few years ago. The Giants have historically employed players that air out dirty laundry in house not on prime-time & I like it that way....Osi did not and picked SB week to get on a soap box and promote himself to other teams perhaps interested.....we do not need that type of selfish player. Not sure why you mention Clark....he is an OLB and not a DE.....Clark will not be back with us and imo, that is judicious....Sintim & a healthy Boley should do a nice job for us this season

  26. bankstaylor, Kiwi played LB because if he didn't, he basically wouldn't play at all which speaks volumes. In other words, he couldn't crack the DE rotation that year.

    Actually, I mentioned Clark because he was one of those players that played extremely poor (I really could never when he was on the field), but did not lose his job nor was he benched. Not sure if you get the comparison, but if not, the point Osi was trying to drive across is 'why bench me and not him or any of the DT's wasting space up front?'. To sum it up, the entire unit laid an egg, but only 1 was made an example of.

    But enough already, I'm not an attorney representing Osi. It just seems as if people have gone overboard with his public comments. I mean really, we've heard a lot worse. Just a few years ago, we got handled in a playoff game against Carolina where certain players echoed the sentiments of being 'out-coached'. Now if that isn't a smack in the face, I don't know what is. And another example comes from within, where Reese labeled Manning as being 'skittish'. That's not necessarily a vote of confidence from the front office.

  27. Anon - You're delusional if you think any one can have a year like Osi did, play that poorly against the run, and feel free to act like an ass in the media. That's how you end up in Oakland or Detroit. Or, as your career progresses, how you end up out of the NFL for good. T.O. still has some skills and would be an upgrade of a few teams 2nd and 3rd WRs. Yet, no one is calling. Wonder if it has anything to do with his habit of "taking things public"?

  28. dweez115, I don't understand how you can make the comparison between Osi and TO. Osi's recent comments are not even close to what TO has done repeatedly throughout his entire career. It's not warranted and completely off base.

    Like I stated before, I don't represent Osi. He is what he is and that's a speed rusher off the edge with a weakness against the run. With that said, this isn't exactly news. He's always had a weakness against the run. The difference, which many choose to ignore, is having a DC that can best use his skill-set and mask apparent weaknesses. This is what Spagnuolo was able to do during his time with the Giants and this what Sheridan could not do (amongst other things). Add the injury to Antonio Pierce and an ineptitude at the remaining LB position, and what do you know, all those weaknesses become apparent again and then some. (I'm just saying)

    Nonetheless, if the Giants feel that Osi is no longer an asset to this team, then by all means, trade him and get the best possible value. I'm all in for doing what's best for this team.

  29. Anon - We'll have to agree to disagree. As for the Osi - T.O. comparison, I think it's valid. They both use the press to make themselves out as martyrs. Osi didn't like Sheridan. Ok, neither did I. The guy gets fired. Osi should see that as a positive sign, right? Nope. Osi announces that he refuses to even talk to the new DC until he meets with the owners. That's very TO like. Osi wouldn't even give Fewell the common courtesy of talking to the man before he walks all over him. It's childish and classless. Like I said before, if the complaining was done by closed doors, fine. We all like to b**ch from time to time. But when you do it in the press, you disrepect the men who pay you and, more importantly, all the other guys in the locker room.