Friday, February 19, 2010

Some Draft Stuff

The NFL Scouting Combine starts next week, so as a run-up ESPN recently ran a conference call with draft expert Mel Kiper, Jr.

Now, I know some of you probably don't care for Kiper, considering the way his hair never moves an iota on the draft telecasts. But he's been doing this for a long time, so I think it's valuable to at least get his opinion on things. So I'm going to give you some exerpts from his 97-minute session, especially those portions that might pertain to the Giants.

Some have suggested the Giants go so far as to trade up to the No. 1 spot, from their 15th pick, to get Nebraska DT Ndamukong Suh, and others have suggested Oklahoma DT Gerald McCoy or Tennessee corner Eric Berry. Kiper rates them as the top three picks in the draft.

"McCoy gives you a little bit more versatility because he can be a 3-4 end and a 4-3-1 gap penetrator," Kiper said. "Suh is a guy that is strong, powerful, an outstanding bull rusher. I think he is a better pass-rusher in general than people give him credit for. McCoy is a little bit more sudden, a little bit more explosive. But I think when you look at the productivity of Suh and the instincts and the ability to be a complete defensive tackle without being an elite pass rusher, Suh is.

"McCoy was also very productive at Oklahoma. I have them one and two on the board and would not argue with either one going first overall.

"You look at Suh and the productivity the last two years tells you all about this kid. He’s a warrior. I still give Suh the slightest of edges. I have McCoy at No. 2 on the Big Board overall as well, so its not like they’re just projected to go No.1 and No. 2, they’ve been the No. 1 and No. 2 player with Eric Berry the safety from Tennessee at No. 3. That’s been steady and solid since early October. Fourth has been a little fluid but the three of Suh, McCoy and Berry have been etched in stone and will be etched in stone all the way until Draft Day for me."

I get the idea from Kiper that Texas S Earl Thomas might be around when the Giants pick in the second round. Given their need at that position, he might be a legit choice.

"The size factor and how he’ll hold up in the NFL is something that may push him into the late first, early second round from where I had him," Kiper said. "He’s got tremendous ball skills, a good tackler, a big game guy. In the spotlight games he was at his best.…This is a guy that if you can get him in the early to mid-second round, I think you’re getting yourself one heck of a player."

Here's the whole call if you've got the time and the interest.



  1. Is anyone open to this proposal. Trade Osi and a 2nd round pick to the St. Louis Rams for their 1st round pick and Grab Ndamukon Suh with the 1st pick and then grab Rolando Mclain with our 15th pick if he's still there or trade up to get him. Just a though.

  2. Since the Rams are in the process of getting new owners, I strongly doubt that any deal can be made with them. Everyone in St. Louis is worried that they will lose their job (rightly so!). Under those circumstances, who would want to take the risk that the new owner doesn't like the move, or, even if he does, fires you because the fans don't like it? I think with the ownership situation as shaky as it is, the chances of getting anything done with the Rams are slim to none. Add on to that, the Ram's desperate need for O lineman above all else, and I think Osi and any pick gets you nowhere. Also, I remember a QB named Leaf and an O lineman named Mandarich that were absolute "locks" to succeed (99% sure that Kipper was very high on both of them). I'm not saying Suh will be a bust, but we have to remember that the possibilty does exist. Until you do it at the NFL level, you're a gamble. Finally, you have to remember that taking the first ten guys in the draft punishes your team. Salaries have been so grossly inflated for these guys that one bad pick cripples your team with money issues. If there is to be a new CBA, there has to be a rookie cap. It's ridiculous that guys who never played a down in the NFL, that may or may not be successful, can get such huge salaries. JaMarcus' contract in Oakland has really hurt that team badly. I think if you asked most NFL teams they would tell you they don't want the number one pick anymore because of the salary issue.

  3. Is anyone open to this proposal. Trade Osi and a 2nd round pick to the St. Louis Rams for their 1st round pick and Grab Ndamukon Suh with the 1st pick and then grab Rolando Mclain with our 15th pick if he's still there or trade up to get him. Just a though.

    i'm open to it. i think we all are. the only people, in fact, who would think its a bad idea, is everyone in St. Louis. good idea, but completely unrealistic.

    Ernie, i know there are doubts over Thomas' size, but even if he does drop into the second, do you really think he could drop as far as us? i just think that hes a good enough player for someone in the top 46 to overlook his size.

  4. I have the interest to listen to the whole call. But, not the time. Anything else he say that could relate to the Giants? I'm a much bigger fan of Mayock when it comes to the draft.

  5. Okay, the local Husker is going to check in on this one. First of all, I am surprised Wayno has not commented yet. Dweez, I appreciate your concern regarding Kiper's opinions of others in the past. He is not the only one calling Suh a sure thing. Many other analysts are as well. No such thing as a sure thing. But, in regards to Suh, he is close to one. I watched the dude tear teams apart, especially the past 2 years. I mean, as a junior, the guy intercepted a pass and ran it 30 yards for a TD! It was one of the most purely athletic plays I have ever seen in my 30 years of watching football. Suh is not a product of a system, he is the system. The Huskers D was good, but Suh made them excellent. He beat off double and triple teams on every down! Did anyone watch what he did to Texas? I cannot be unbias here, because of my loyalties to both teams, the Giants and Nebraska. I would love nothing more than to see Suh get drafted by the Big Blue (yes, rhyme done purposefully). A d-line of Tuck, Canty, Suh, Kiwi. Romo and McNabb would file for retirement! Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No. Should Reese give it strong consideration? Yes. Will he? Let me talk to him for about half an hour.

  6. Come on guys. Forget the dreams of Suh. Remember what we had to give up to go from 4 to 1 for Eli? Now imagine how much it would take to go from 15 to 1...

  7. Talk about being unrealistic. Why in the world would the Rams take a former 2nd round pick and another 2nd round pick in this year's draft for their #1? That doesn't even make any sense.

    Earl Thomas falling to the middle of the 2nd round is another thing that makes very little sense. He's the 2nd best S in the draft with the true cover skills of a CB. Not to mention, the guy also runs a sub 4.4.

    Middle 2nd round pick...if the guy tears it up at the combine, he might not be around by the time the Giants select in the 1st round.

  8. But, Adam, different draft for a different player. San Diego also kept raising the price because they could. St. Louis needs a lot of help and they know that. They are in a worse position than the Chargers were and might be a bit more desperate. I think Spags would love to have Osi and might over pay to get him. I think the Rams would like to fall back in this draft if they could. They have young defensive lineman, maybe too young. Could use a veteran there. They also need a QB and probably don't want to take Clausen or Bradford #1 and then over-pay them. Suh is a dream that could be a reality. He is a high motor guy with an unquestionable work ethic. Basically, Suh would be the Eli of the defense. I am just asking Reese to consider it and I hope he reads this. Both for personal/selfish reasons and to try to get the best player in the draft.

  9. The #1 pick is a very costly one in which most teams try to avoid because of the compensation attributed to the rookie salary pool.

    Moving from 15 to 1 is not only expensive because of the picks lost to do so, but it would also greatly impact the team's cap.

    We need to think a little more realistically, here.

  10. CE, What would you offer to the Rams for the #1 pick?

  11. the giants dont have what it takes to move to the first pick. nor should they move, they need too much help. check out the draft value chart:

  12. CE718, it doesn't matter which draft it is, going for which player, a second round pick and a player is not enough to move up from 15 to 1 and it never will be.